Monday, February 3, 2014

5th hour fishbowl #4: Fahrenheit 451 beginning of part 3

Afternoon!  Hope we can rev up our post-Superbowl-letdown brains for a great discussion today.  This is an exciting reading section!

Begin by throwing out any comprehension questions you have.  Odds are, if you're confused, so are others. This text is challenging.

As always, to earn full credit, please participate throughout discussion; develop your thinking, supporting your ideas with textual evidence; and be sure to proofread your work.

Happy posting!

73 comments:

  1. What was the most powerful quote in this passage and why?

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    1. On page 117, He says ¨...burn them or theyĺl burn you"and i choose this quote because it says alot about whats going on in his mind. He knows that he's alone on this and he cant trust anyone because they can come back and stab you in the back. So he's choosing to isolate himself before they isolate him.

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  2. Do you think that what Montag did to captain Beatty was wrong? Was there another way to handle him and still not be turned in, possibly some way less immoral?

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    1. i would say no cause running he would lose and at that moment he wasnt thinking so he killed him

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    2. I think he could have done something else, but I think Montag didn't really realize what happened and what he was doing so I think that was the only option Montag thought he had

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    3. I think it was wrong for Montag to do that because by doing that he became just as much of a bad person as Beatty was. I think he could have gotten away without hurting anyone.

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  3. How significant is it the Mildred turned Guy in? What possible effects could this have?

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    1. I think that the only effect that this could have is Montag and her getting a divorce. In this society people move on so quickly, that I don't think there will be any other outcomes from this.

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    2. I feel like it is pretty significant. It shows the change in Mildred and Montag's relationship, and how books have made them grow apart as opposed to together

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    3. I meant more of how it would effect the outcome of a rebellion if there is one. Will it change Montague s course of action if he doesn't have a wife to worry about?

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    4. I think that it's still pretty significant in that sense as well. They don't really value life and love for what it truly is so his actions might not change. Though he might feel as though he has no reason to be careful of what he says or does since she turned him in.

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  4. I was just wondering if anybody else thought that it was kind of funny that Mildred just fled the house and into a taxi right in front montag's eyes.

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  6. Do you think Clarisse will play a role in the end of this story? I think she might because on page 122 Montag once again thinks about her and her death.

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    1. I don't think so, her role in this book was to get the ball rolling, not finish a possible rebellion.

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    2. I agree with Dom. Clarisse wasn't introduced as a major character and never played a large part in the story. So I don't think she'll be coming back.

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    3. I also agree with Dom. I think Clarisse was more of just a symbol of innocence and just got the story going.

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    4. I don't think that the author will bring her up again but I think that she is the reason that this all happened. If Montag hadn't met her, I don't think that he would have realized how wrong the world is and wouldn't have tried to make a change.

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  7. On page 109, it says, "Midred, of course. She must have watched him hide the books in the garden and brought them back in. Mildred. Mildred." Do you think Mildred turned against Montag?

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    1. I don't this she turned against Montag, I just think she was worried about all that Montag was doing and she just didn't want to get caught up in it more than she has

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    2. I think she just did what is natural to her, follow the rules. Thus she turned Montag in.On page 108 it says She chewed you out, didn't she? One of those damn do-gooders with their shocked. holier-than-thou silences, their one talent making others feel guilty." I think this hints at the fact that Mildred didn't do it out of anger or revenge towards Montag. She did it, because thats what she knows she's supposed to do.

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  8. Page 111 “When you’re quite finished” (Beaty taunting Montag about burning his House) The relation between the female who decided to burn her house and Montag is that they both did it without hesitation. Montag could have refused but instead without hesitation he proceeded to burn down the house along with his books. What does the destruction of our past equate to for our future?

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  9. On page 116 it says that Beatty wanted to die. Do you think this is true and why would he want to die?

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    1. Deep inside, Beatty was on Montag's side. Definetly.

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    2. I think that it is very true. He knew full well that a flamethrower was pointed at him, and yet he continued to taunt Montag. In my opinion, people in this world don't value life as they should.

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    3. I think he wanted to die because of the taunting. Almost like he was asking for it.

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    4. I think it is true. As is pointed out in the following paragraphs, Beatty did not try to save himself, and "Just stood there, joking". Why else would he do this if not to die? I don't know why he would want to however. Any ideas?

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    5. I believe that he did want to die. He was aware of his surroundings and capable of getting out of in somehow. I think he just gave up, plus they don't really value life as they should.

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  10. Did anybody do any further/deeper thinking on why Beatty made Montag burn his house with a flame thrower, rather than a kerosene hose? After all making Montag use the flamethrower ultimately resulted in his own death.

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    1. I think Beatty made him do it with the flamethrower because it was a harsher form of punishment. So I think Beatty was more concerned with harshly punishing Montag than with his own safety.

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    3. I think that if captain Beatty really did want to die, this is the reason he let him use the flamethrower. I assume that Beatty knew that this would be Montags reaction towards him, but simply wanted to be killed. He fantasizes so much about fire and its beauty that this is the way he wanted to go out.

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  11. Austin asked if we think that we could ever be like this world and I think we could be. Obviously right now we still have a lot of emotion towards violence, but when you watch the news, every other story is violence and we just shrug it off because it happened again.

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    1. i agree because this seems like a possible outcome because we barely read now and im worried about it cause for myself im trying to write a book and so do others but since its tv and electronics now, books aren't popular

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    2. I think we kind of just shrug it off because its becoming normal. We all know that things happen in life rather we like it or not.

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    3. I agree. I think as we see more and more violence on the news we will become more desensitized towards it.

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    4. I think that we're becoming somewhat numb to it in a sense. Having so much violence around us is making us feel like it's just another event.

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    5. If we as a society want to avoid this sort of censorship and move toward a place where there is no desensitization, we need to stop normalizing violence. When it happens, we need to focus on the positives not the negatives and how the community became stronger not lost lives. We need to celebrate the good that comes out of it and not normalize it.

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    2. I think that although stress may have played a part, as well as the intense flames, his sweat may have been from fear from what he had done and was about to do.

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  13. Page 98 “Go home and think… divorce ...children who hate you.” (Montag's fight with Mildred) How does the study of history change our perception on the past of those who surround us? Does the power of knowledge create judgment?

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    1. I think it does. When we have a certain knowledge of the past we develop opinions on it. Other people have different opinions which causes judgement from others. Though it can also keep us going because if we all thought the same then things would be pointless. So having judgement and opinions in a way is good.

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  14. Page 106 “We’ve stopped in front of my house” (Montag Questioning Beaty about their destination.) Who is Beaty and who is Montag in the sense of a satire? Does this book represent the idea of a Religious or Political satire.



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  15. On page 114, It says " Even now it seemed to want to get back at him and finish the injection which was now working through the flesh of his leg." I'm little confused at this part of the book. What injection is he talking about?

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    1. When the mechanical dog was after Montag, it injected him with some sort of fluid. It was very painful for him and made it difficult for him to move.

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  16. On page 114, it says that the mechanical hound injects a sort of anesthesia into his leg. I would have thought that anybody who has done a crime severe enough to have metal beast sent after him, would probably deserve a more severe punishment than anesthesia. Obviously it didn't do it's intended job very well.

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    1. I think that the Mechanical Dogs purpose is not to kill the person it is after, but rather make them immobile so that the authorities can get to him. Montag hid in the alley and fought through the pain long enough until the anesthesia wore off, and he was able to run agian.

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  17. To answer Austin's question about the picture on the cover, I do think that this is a symbol for burning knowledge is hurting us. I have never thought about that before and thought it was an interesting question.

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    1. I think it symbolizes how burning the books burns society with it. Without literature, the society in F 451 is emotionless and distant from the world. What I do wonder about the image, is what is in the persons right hand, and who the person is supposed to be.

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  18. Do you think that there are more people that actually agree with Montag on the purpose of books, like how Montag believes books have a purpose

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    1. I think there are a lot more people that agree with Montag but I think they're to worried about what would happen if they said or did something like Montag did that they just don't say anything

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    2. I think there are, I just think they are too afraid to do anything about it because they aren't sure if they are the only ones who believe books have a purpose or not.

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    3. I agree. Some people are too afraid of what the outcome of speaking out about their beliefs. Though standing up for what you believe in is more important than what happens to you. If you truly believe in it then it will be worth it.

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    5. I think that many of the "old timers" really like the books, but since they are so old, they think that they have to stay quiet.

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  19. To answer Keaton's question about the significance of Montag talking about Clarisse on page 122, I think that Clarisse is Montag's motivation and I think she will continue to fuel him throughout the book.

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  20. Could this book closely relate to something today?

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    1. I think it can relate to the world in certain aspects. Today there is a fair amount of government censorship, and I think that parallels the society in the book.

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    2. I think this almost an opposite society than we live today, considering everything is so social and opinionated.

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    3. I think this book can closely relate to alot of real world problems like not necessarily so recent but back during the civil rights movement it took a certain person to stand up and make a change and Im predicting that this is what Montag is doing, he is rebelling. I dont think it will be long before more people begin to take his side.

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    4. I think that it's like a warning to us. If we keep living a certain way than this could happen.

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    5. Off of what Eric said, things are not very opinionated today, people don't have the proper education and knowledge to form legitimate opinions

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  21. Do you think that Montag expected his earpiece to go unnoticed? Do you think he even supported the idea in the first place, or did he just accept the earpiece to make Faber happy?

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    1. i would think no one ould look into his ear and say "is that an earpeice?"

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    2. Well this world is so immersed in technology so I doubt anyone would really question it.

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    3. Beatty did happen to notice it... and he wan't very happy about it. And when you seem to be talking to nobody... it is likely you are in a call or have an earpiece.

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    4. I think that it was such a small earpiece,that he did think that it would be unnoticed. He had the misfortune to have it fall our of his ear while outside of his burning house with Beatty. The reason he killed Beatty was to keep Faber safe.

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    5. On page 112 Beatty says, "I saw you tilt your head, listening. First I thought you had a seashell." This shows how something like an earpiece can just be overlooked because the world is so immersed in technology.

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  22. Further on, as Montag moved in darkness, he could see the helicopters falling falling like the first flakes of snow in the long winter to come" (Bradbury 123)
    Why does he use them as a metaphor like this?

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  23. Alex had a good question, why is the section called "The sand in the Sieve"

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    1. On page 116, "to go back to normal pattern of life a few short days ago before the sieve and the sand." I think its because this section declares the end of the old ways of living.

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