Consider these questions and responses from your classmates last week, modeling your responses off theirs. You'll notice each refers to a specific plot point or passage to introduce a question or defend a response. Each is also carefully proofread and well-developed. Use these model responses as well as feedback from last discussion to guide your postings today.
Tuesday, January 21, 2014
Spring fishbowl #2: the opening of Fahrenheit 451
Much like with our verbal discussion, in our written discussion, we had many good ideas and questions, but often neglected to contextualize our thinking.
Consider these questions and responses from your classmates last week, modeling your responses off theirs. You'll notice each refers to a specific plot point or passage to introduce a question or defend a response. Each is also carefully proofread and well-developed. Use these model responses as well as feedback from last discussion to guide your postings today.
I really like your
question Natalie because it also brought up my thoughts from yesterday that
wouldn't these transmitters still keep them from being unequal? In the story
Hazel says "I don't care if you're not equal to me for awhile." So
Hazel knows that George is smarter than her and she knows that because he has a
handicapper to technically "dumb him down". So in a way these
handicappers still make them unequal.
On the second page of
Harrison Bergeron when George and Hazel were watching the ballerinas, George
was white and trembling and there were tears in his eyes. Then the ballerinas
suddenly collapse on the floor. Was it a coincidence that it happened in the same
time?
Consider these questions and responses from your classmates last week, modeling your responses off theirs. You'll notice each refers to a specific plot point or passage to introduce a question or defend a response. Each is also carefully proofread and well-developed. Use these model responses as well as feedback from last discussion to guide your postings today.
I really like your
question Natalie because it also brought up my thoughts from yesterday that
wouldn't these transmitters still keep them from being unequal? In the story
Hazel says "I don't care if you're not equal to me for awhile." So
Hazel knows that George is smarter than her and she knows that because he has a
handicapper to technically "dumb him down". So in a way these
handicappers still make them unequal.
On the second page of
Harrison Bergeron when George and Hazel were watching the ballerinas, George
was white and trembling and there were tears in his eyes. Then the ballerinas
suddenly collapse on the floor. Was it a coincidence that it happened in the same
time?
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I think the reason that they have firefighters who burn books is because the people have been brainwashed and the government doesn't want anyone to know about the way of life before them. They don't want the people to be inspired or have different thoughts and ideas.
ReplyDeleteI agree I think the government wants to make sure they have complete control over everything that happens and everything everyone else does and they don't want the people to think that they can have a say in how everything is run. Its easier to control everyone as long as they believe that your always right.
DeleteHow can Clarisse McClellan and her family find happiness, and Guy Montag can't?
ReplyDeleteI think its because they choose to find it and guy doesn't. It may be because the way of life clarisse has now is the only way of life she has ever known and Guy may have known a different, better life before the burning of the books.
DeleteI don't think Guy can find happiness because he has been brain washed to think a certain way. He was taught that it was good to burn books and to find pleasure in that but eventually the fire will stop and therefor his happiness will end until he burns books again.
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ReplyDeleteOn page 7 Clarisse asked Montag "are you happy?" Before quickly leaving to her house. Why would she ask Montag this question.
ReplyDeleteShe probably asked him this because she may have noticed the fat that he was smiling and didn't really seem to be really involved in anything and wanted to spark something in him to get him to think more about his life and how he is living it.
DeleteI think that she asks him this because she thinks that he isn't happy because he has a job of burning books. Maybe Clarisse actually reads those books and is happy when she does.
DeleteI believe that she would ask this question to make him think. Montag just goes with life, he does what he does and he has no reasoning for it. She is probably making him think because he is so brainwashed with a different idea of life and his job as a firefighter.
DeleteI think Clarisse asked Montag this question and then quickly left so it would stick with him. I think this question will be something that Montag keeps in mind for the rest of his life. Happiness will be what Montag will desire strive for.
DeleteI think its her way of questioning if what hes supposed to do is what he wants to do. He talks about everything as if that's all hes learned and that's all hes ever been told was right and hes never thought about people who may not agree with what he thinks, he doesn't really realize that he can change the way he thinks. I also think that Clarisse has a lot of knowledge and she knows the truth as apposed to what they've all been told.
DeleteIt seems like an easy question to answer, but when you think to answer, it can be made simple or more complex. If you're not having the best day and somebody compliments you that can make you happy or on a more complex level you may need a lot of things going good in your life to be happy. Therefore I think this question that she asks shows a lot about who she is and how she feels about happiness and how the way she feels influences other peoples feelings.
DeleteOn page 5 Clarisse says, "You know, I'm not afraid of you at all... So many people are. Afraid of firemen, I mean. But you're just a man after all...." Clarisse likes to watch people and she hasn't ever gotten to talk to a fireman and I think she wants to see the way he looks at things, like being a fireman, and how he lives his life and she just wants to know if he feels happy with what he does for his career.
DeleteI think its's easy for her to make him question things because if they don't have books or anything, they probably don't learn a whole lot, so the things that she asks him would be wieid to him to have to think that deeply about things.
ReplyDeleteI think the reason that the firefighters burn the books is because they want to get rid of all the extra knowledge there is for them to get. They have kind of brainwashed them and they don't want the people to know that there was a different way of life for them before.
ReplyDeleteOn Page 3, Clarisse is introduced and when she is described, it as if she is a goddess, could that connect with anything she says to Guy?
ReplyDeleteHow do you picture people? How do you think society behaves socially? On page 14 "Strangers come and cut your heart out" "Strangers come and violate you" based on these quotes how do people act around one another?
ReplyDeleteThese quotes are showing how scared people truly are of one another and what they think they might do to them
DeleteI think that in their society, people aren't really happy. On page 8, Montag says "Happy! Of all the nonsense!" which shows that being happy is probably not very common where they are, so I think that people without happiness are probably not very kind or really care about other people.
DeleteI think people in this society act very timid around each other. I think they act this way because they don't know each other, they really only know what they do in their jobs and most of their jobs include violence.
DeleteOn page 9, Montag states, "What incredible power of identification the girl had". How does Clarisse resemble Montag so much? Why do you think she has had such a big impact on hiim?
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag sees himself in Clarisse because she is kind of a rebellious character just because she asked him about reading books rather than burning them and maybe Montag used to be that way and wishes he still could be
DeleteI think she had a big impression on him because she reminds him of a young him. I think he probably had strong identification and she does too so it reminds him of a younger version of himself.
DeleteI think she had a big impact on him because she made him question things like his happiness. He probably never had someone make him question things so much. I also think he is so interested in her because in some ways they are similar. The quote on page 5 "He saw himself in her eyes.." has something to do with this impact.
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ReplyDeleteWhy do you think they have been brainwashed? Why doesn't the government want people to know the way of life? Why don't they want anyone to have different thoughts or ideas?
ReplyDeleteI think that the government wants to be in complete control over the people. So they brainwashed them in some way so they don't try to protest what is happening. On page 6 it says '...long ago firemen put fire out instead of going to start them." I think they where taught that this was not the truth because if they knew this the firemen did this long ago they might not want to burn books.
DeleteI think they are doing this because they want everyone to be equal and make no one better than anyone else. They don't want different social classes or anyone to see that they can be smarter so they are trying to get rid of everything that would make them smarter or better than anyone else. This is their way of making everyone equal.
DeleteI think the firefighters in this book are the ones who are really brainwashed because they are doing the exact opposite of what they are supposed to do in our world. They are lighting books on fire in open, public space.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think they choose to burn them in public space rather than in confined space?
I think that they burn them in a public place because it's like a message to the people to show them what will happen if they have books.
DeleteI think they burn them in public so people know what they do and kind of brings them fear in a way
DeleteI agree with Katy. I think they burn them in public to scare the people and show them what will happen if they get caught.
DeleteI think that the firefighters are so brainwashed they think this is normal. On page 6 Clarisse questions what Montag does and he really has no shame or anything to back himself up. I think that they burn books in public spaces because in a way, they want to brainwash the rest of the people too and make them think that this is a norm.
DeleteOn page 11, we see this quote, "The small crystal bottle of sleeping...light of the tiny flare." This suggests that drugs are a part of her life, or were. We all have a past that is full of good things, and bad things. That sparks the question for me, how do our experiences and our past influence the way we live now? We see that she is kind of mysterious but no matter what kind of mask you put on, there is more to people than their masks and the way they act. They have feelings, they have a purpose, and they have reasons for everything they do.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that there is always a lot more to people behind their mask. Our experiences and things that have happened to us in the past have an impact on the way we live because it can change the way you think. You're thoughts and ideas are constantly changing as you grow up, but I don't think that you're past completely defines you.
DeleteI like your thinking. Reading this section you can already pick up that the book refers to masks and faces a lot. Our past experiences good or bad play a big role in how you live your life now. They make up who you are but they do not always define you, like in this case with the drugs. Drugs do not define her now but were a part of her at one point. I think that in the text that people do a lot of judging or assumptions based on ones mask.
Delete"He saw himself in her eyes..." (Page 5) Does Guy think this girl is similar to himself? It seems that they have more differences then similarities.
ReplyDeleteI think that Guy views himself as others view himself, a firefighter, someone who people are afraid of. So he acts like that. I feel that in a way deep down he finds himself in her, someone that is a bright person and is happy. He is just so brainwashed to the point that its overpowered his life and way of thinking. I think she sees that too.
DeleteOn page 5 the girl says,"most people are afraid of firemen." But now book are being burned and she knows so much about the past and how firemen use to put out house fires. Also when he asks about books she changes the subject, I think that she has books and doesn't want him to know about her books so he doesn't burn them.
ReplyDeleteWhen Clarisse and Montag are talking about history and how firemen used to put out fires on page 6, why does Montag just brush it off as a silly question? He didn’t seem to even really give it thought. Do you think that since there is no books, they didn’t bother to make a new resource for people to learn about history so that they know these things. How does Clarisse know this?
ReplyDeleteHe brushes it off as a silly question because he has been brainwashed to think that fireman had always started the fires and that houses are fireproof.
DeleteI think that Montag doesn't really even consiter the thought of fireman helping people because without having books to learn from, he would never learn about history or what things were like back in our time so he would have never heard of firemen putting our fires. I think that Clarisse knows this because on page 5, she asks Montag "Do you ever read any of the books you burn?", I think it shows that she reads the books which is why she doesn't like that he burns them, so she would have read about fireman back in our time helping people.
DeleteI don't think they have a very social society. Also, I don't think they know that before people would read books to get smarter. They don't understand this and this is the only way that they have seen life. They don't know anything different so they don't fight for things to be a different way. I think they are very brain washed and there isn't really an escape from that for them.
ReplyDeleteI agree because on page 14 he says "Strangers come and cut your heart out" "Strangers come and violate you" This is showing that they're afraid of what people might do and are very unsocial towards many people especially people they don't know.
DeleteOn page 11 it talks about montag and it says "He felt his chest chopped down and split apart."
ReplyDeleteWhat does this passage mean and what is happening to montag?
The reason why I think they burned the books is because books spread ideas and knowledge which creates inequality, the Soviets during ww2 burned all the politically different books and they did this to get rid of all hopes of another government taking hold. I think they also did this to deaden all knowledge of the public and create a completely totalism style government.
ReplyDeleteOn page 15, Montag is shown thinking about everything that the girl said to him and everything that is going on in his life so hard that he cannot sleep and then says, "I don't know anything anymore." Do you think that maybe he might not want to burn books or be living the life he is?
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DeleteI think he realizes that she has books and he likes her so he doesn't want to burn the books anymore because he knows how much they mean to her.
DeleteI think that he is unhappy in his life, after he met with Clarisse he thought about what made him happy, wasn't the reason that made him happy. It is clear now that he doesn't want to burn books because he feels it takes the life away things.
DeleteI think the government has a bigger role in the peoples lives then they do today. I think that they want the public to be more in the dark because they burn books, they arrest people for going slow while driving so I think that they are shielding the public from the past.
ReplyDeleteOn page 13 when the two handymen are there to filter out Mildred's blood and pumping her stomach, the two handy men said it happens around 10 times a night. Why hasn't this issue been addressed in their society? How did overdosing become such a common thing among people in there society?
ReplyDeleteI think that this occurs so often in this society because people are confused. I think there are people like Montag out in their world and they are just confused about their life and why they're living it the way they are. They have been brainwashed by the government and they try to possibly escape what has happened to them.
DeleteI think that this is such a common thing in their society because they really dont have happiness in their society so the more people are depressed the more that this will happen, and at this point it is normal for them. I don't think it has been addressed in their society because it is so normal for them, they probably don't know any different.
DeleteI'm starting to think that maybe they don't know any better. So far in this story it shows that they really don't know that much about anything and I think the people who end up overdosing just keep taking more medication because its not working right away and then they end up overdosing. And i think that this issue hasn't been addressed because the government just doesn't care.
DeleteI think Bradbury added the pills part in because he believes that people can't live with the burning of literature and everything that is going around them. But afterward, when his wife wakes up, they have a small argument about money and about adding a TV in and how Montag is getting money from being in a play but isn't thinking about his wife; "And I should think you consider me sometimes." pg. 18
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ReplyDeleteOn page 16, the text states that Mildred can't hear due to them being plugged by electronic bees. Why do you think she has to have these? Does she just choose to have them?
ReplyDeleteOn page 16 at the top of the page its says that, "She was an expert at lip reading from ten years of apprenticeship at Seashell ear-thimbles." So she's probably just used to wearing them for work.
DeleteOn page 9, it says that there was a electrical murmur of a hidden wasp snug in its special pink warm nest. Also on page 16, after Guy realized that Mildred was gone, he see's her with two electronic bees humming in her ears. Are those "bees," headphones or those mental handicap radios from the reading, "Harrison Bergeron?"
ReplyDeleteWould you consider the government from this book more or less oppressive than the one in "Harrison Bergeron"?
ReplyDeleteI think the government is similar to the government in "Harrison Bergeron" because they have both brainwashed their society. The people think and live the way the government wants them to.
DeleteI think that this government is less oppressive than the one in Harrison Bergeron because the people don't have to carry weights or wear masks or all the other handicaps they had in Harrison Bergeron, I feel like all the government is taking away from them is their knowledge.
DeleteI think the governments are equally oppressive because in Harrison Bergeron they had the buzzers that would keep people from thinking. And in Fahrenheit 451 they have been brainwashed to think that books should be burned and that fireman have always started the fires. In both cases the government is keeping the truth from them
DeleteI think that Clarisse asks a lot of questions because maybe her reading has made an impact on how smart she is and Montag hasn't encountered someone that asks a lot of questions as much as she does, and he gets curious later on (pg 15) and stands in front of the house, listening to their voices.
ReplyDeleteDoes Montag seem like the kind of person that would support reading books instead of burning them?
ReplyDeleteWhat would've happened to Mildred if Guy had come home later?
ReplyDeleteShe probably would have died and he wouldn't have been there to help her. But maybe if he called the emergency their equipment would be better than our equipment today because they would have advanced from the past and gotten Mildred to be healthy again.
DeleteMaybe they burn books in public places so that people could see and automatically associate books with destruction, therefore making them undesirable and a bad thing.
ReplyDeleteWell I don't think that he wanted to leave because he later on comes back a looks at her window and says to let me in and let me be in your conversation. Then he said I won't talk I just want to listen to you talk. So I think that he wants to talk more and learn more.
ReplyDeleteClarisse looks at things at a complete different way than Montag, I think Clarisse asks a lot of questions to show this show the knowledge that books give you.
ReplyDelete