Tuesday, January 28, 2014

5th hour fishbowl #3: p. 18--89

One of the many qualities that's awesome about you all is the way that you listen to and learn from your feedback. I began copying and pasting great comments and questions from last discussion and there were so many who did a great job I ran out of room to post them all.  Particularly, you did a great job developing and defending your ideas with textual evidence.

For today's discussions, work on proofreading your ideas as well as participating throughout the course of discussion.  Also, don't be afraid to throw your comprehension questions out there; I know this is a challenging text and this is a great text to use to sort through your level 1 questions.

61 comments:

  1. What would you say is the most impactful quote in the section?

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    1. "Maybe the books can get us half out of the cave. They just might stop us from making the same damn mistakes." (Bradbury 70)

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    2. The quote that stuck out to me the most was on page 88 when Montag was discussing with Faber, " I don't want to change sides and just be told what to do." I think this quote had a huge impact because I think Montag has finally decided he is done putting up with what everyone else was doing and conforming to the norms of his world.

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    3. I would have to say that the most impactful quote throughout the duration of this text section would have to be on page 73. "Does your 'family' love you, love you very much, love you with all your heart and soul, Millie?" This is so important because he is trying to get the point across that he is really all that Millie has. The walls are not going to be there for her like he will, and they need to become "one" and do this together.

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    4. I chose the quote "Montag's hands picked up the Bible. He saw what his hands had done and he looked surprised." Pg.84. I think this represents how Montag's subconscience because it show how he really is interested in book and what they have to say

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  2. One page 38, do you think the act of the lady setting herself on fire was the first major event that started to change Montag?

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    1. Yes, it was the shock and awe he needed to really understand what he was doing and how he could make a better life and world for himself.

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    2. No because Montag already has a huge collection of books, so he been changing for a while now. I think that event made him realize how important book really are.

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    3. I do, I think that the lady setting herself on fire showed Montag how some people think of books and he started to think of why she did and he wanted to find out.

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    4. Yes, Montag really started thinking about what he was really doing and what his life was like after that had happened and I think if it did not happen he would just carry on with how his life was going

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    5. I think that this action was part of it. I feel like Clarisse had already made Montag start to question the way society is. I think Montag was already changing, so I don't think this moment in particular started the change in Montag

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    6. No, I think he had been changing his whole life, but he had finally snapped and realized this is the time for a major change in his life, and he was ready to make that change.

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    7. Yes. Though he had been taking books for a while now, after witnessing this he had a change of heart. The books didn't make him change nearly as much as seeing this woman kill herself.

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    8. I do not think that her burning herself was because even prior to it, the book alludes that he has been collecting books far before these events.

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    9. I think that it's the first event to do something about the wrongness of the situation, but I think that in the beginning when he had met Clarisse and she had questioned it, he was trying to act like it wasn't bad only because it was by law.

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  3. How would you react if you were Montag and you had the choice to either stand up for yourself or just keep on with the same lifestyle?

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    1. I would fight for what I strongly believed in

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    2. I have always been one to stand up, with even if I held the unpopular opinion. If I had the chance to make a change for the better, like Montag has, I would take it.

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  5. I just have a question about the book in general, why do you think that people in this society are actually afraid of books. It seems like they have just turned to burning them because they were an inconvenience, so how would they come to be afraid of them?

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    1. Books breed conflict. People are frightened of conflict and therefore of books.

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    2. I think they are afraid of books because they're afraid of people thinking in the minds of books. Books are usually about someone who thinks differently or someone who does something to make a change and reading it can make people want to change the way government is running the dystopian world.

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    3. I think that the people in this society are afraid of books because they have been told all their life that books are bad, so to now challenge that idea is frightening to them. New is always scary.

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    4. I don't think people are nesisarrily afraid of books. I just don't think they really understand them. On page 69 it Mildred says, "Books aren't people. You read and I look all around. But there isn't anybody." The normal person doesn't understand the purpose of books. So I don't think they are necessarily scared but more confused.

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    5. I think that their lack of books as well as the glorification that has seemed to be put on burning books has made them think books are bad things. I think that it is a natural reaction for people to act frightened by things they think are bad. For example, Mildred is afraid of books because she thinks they are bad for society as a whole.

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  6. "I'm not angry, I said surprised." - Page 71 (Montag speaking to Mildred)
    How do you think the book's have opened up Montag's eyes to emotion, Why is he no longer aggravated by Mildred's constant nagging and simplicity?

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    1. The books have made him more intelligent and understanding. He is starting to show a little side Clarisse.

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    2. I think that he has come to know that he can choose not to be that way, not to lead a simple life with no point and he is no longer bothered by those who choose different.

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    3. I think he is so intreaged by the books that Mildred doesn't really bother him anymore.

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    4. I think books have made Montag start to question both the world they live in and the relationships he has with others. In the beginning of part 2, it talks about friendship, and eludes to Montag thinking about relationships, and wanting to have good relations with everyone including Mildred.

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  7. Beatty states several Times how books are dangerous but on moments like on page 37 beatty quotes books like no other person. is it possible that maybe montag isn,t the only one hiding something? could beatty possibly have a book collection for himself?

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    1. I think Beatty does have a book collection, and he says how books are dangerous because he doesn't want to draw attention to himself

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    2. Beatty may have a collection of books that he is hidding and he is just trying to cover it up by trying to make Montag confront that he has a whole stash of books.

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    3. I think that is extremely possible that Captain Beatty has books or had books of his own. He mentions that everyone has an itch to read the books, and it seems as though he has.

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    4. I think that Beatty once had a book collection or he has read a lot of books in his lifetime. I think the firemen might have caught him so now he is forced to hate book now.

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    5. I don't think that he does, since he makes a special trip to Montag's house ti tell him it's okay to have the urge but that he has to find out for himself that books are useless. He says on page 59 that eventually a fireman will want to know what exactly he is destroying, but he also clearly states how much he thinks books are useless.

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  8. "Do you know why this book is so important" - Page 79 (Montag Speaking)
    Has Montag's new found knowledge come to his head, instead of reading to better himself he is now judging others who don't? Will his attitude to those "below him" further the hatred to those who read by those who do not?

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  9. What are your thoughts on the author portraying Beaty as a devilish character and Clarisse as almost an angel.

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    1. Beaty almost represents the government, the societal norm. He follows the rules and is fine living like that. While Clarisse is different compared to your average person. She thinks for herself and likes to talk to others.

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    2. I do not think that they are portrayed as devilish/angelic, but rather they examples of the extremes of what their society contains. Clarisse is still very intelligent and observant by the world, something very rare for this society. She asks questions frequently and knows so many little facts. This is in contrary to Beaty's character.

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    3. To show the differences in the two types of people in the world. The ones that are like Beaty that want people to be the same and everyone equal, and the people that are like Clarisse who think outside the box and act out to voice their opinions.

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    4. Beaty is displayed with red skin, blistered hands, and smoke covering him when he comes to visit Montague.

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    5. I think that this really shows the extremes that are in Montags life. He has two people who are hugely impactfull in his life and one is negative and one is really positive. I think these two are such a big part of the story because we want him to go on the path that Clarisse was leading him towards.

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    6. I think the author is wanting you to pick sides and maybe even root for a character to prevail. It also shows how the author is persuading you that Beaty is the one at fault and Clarisse is the voice of reason

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    7. I think wording it as angelic and devilish is misleading. I think it is more of dream and reality, or innocent and impure. I think Clarisse had opinions of things, but they were so lighthearted and had no backing, just mindless thoughts really. So simple. And Beety had experience. Beety knew the truth and knew things were not as simple as things may seem for everyone else. They were not clean and innocent like Clarisse, but perverted and blunt and harsh.

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    8. I honestly think that Clarisse is described as more angelic because she sees so much value in the world she lives in than so many other people such as when she tells Montag on page 7, "theres dew on the grass in the morning." and she is able to slow down and observe the world. And this has made her happy and given her a calm heart. Whereas Beaty is for the government and hes just going through the motions and he is violent and aggressive person. He is not happy, but finds the urge to smile through burning books and acting angry. I think this is why they are portrayed so differently within the text.

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  10. On page 79 where Faber said, "we are living in a time where flowers are trying to grow on flowers, instead of growing on good rain and black loam." I think this was an impactful quote because it depicts how the people in this world are given this artificial idea of happiness. People can not always be happy; no one knows true happiness until you have experienced sadness. I believe this because flowers show happiness and rain is more of a symbol for sadness. Do you think that Mildred is happy? Is Montag on the tight track towards happiness?

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    1. I think Mildred is content, and that is worse then sadness. With sadness, you feel, but being content, there is nothing there.

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    2. I don't think Mildred is happy but I don't think she even knows what happiness is so I think she doesn't realize how she feels

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    3. The "normal person" in society isn't necessarily in tune with his/hers emotions. In the beginning of the book Clarisse throws Montag off guard by asking if he is truly happy. Then Montag comes to the realization that he doesn't know if he is happy. So I think Mildred believes she is truly happy, while she actually is not.

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  12. "I'm not thinking. I'm just doing like I'm told, like always"- Page 88
    In this statement we get the sense that Montag is telling the truth but withholding his intentions. With the type of job that he grew up with, (Non Peaceful) is this how he will lead a rebellion or will it be a peaceful war?

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    1. I dont think this could be a peaceful war. There is always sacrifice for progress.

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    2. I don't think it will be a peaceful. Is it even possible to have a peaceful war?

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    3. I don't think that war can ever be peaceful. One side always has to lose something in order to gain something.

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    4. I think Montag would want it to be a peaceful war because I feel like he is over all of the violence and just wants to see some color in his dark, gray, dull world.

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    5. Who says that sacrifice has to be peace? Im not negating what you have to say, but do you think that there are other things to give up other than peace in a war?

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    6. In order to have peace there has to be a war. But not in this case, I think montag can change the way his people think.

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    7. I think Montag would want it to be peaceful because I feel like he is over all of the violence and he wants to start seeing some color in his dark, gray, and dull world.

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  14. On page 86, Faber mentions several times how he is "cowardly." I think this is how a lot of people that read are, they're afraid to let people know, but on the other hand, you have the lady that was willing to die with her books. Do you think Montag will be more like Faber with his reading and not want anyone to know, or do you think he will be more like the woman, and be open about it and willing to give things up, eventually maybe even his life, for the freedom to read?

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